![]() ![]() And the materials that a president handles are a serious thing. And it was a really important story because that was how we learned there were people who were literally having to take the documents and tape them back together because, as you know, presidential records are a very serious thing. HABERMAN: The ripping up of documents, which I should just note, my colleague Annie Karni first reported on this habit of his - I think it was in 2018 when she was a Politico. Do you or the sources that you spoke to understand what he was doing, why he did this? And I think all three of those pose a threat.ĭAVIES: You know, speaking of documents, you write in the book that when Donald Trump was in the White House, he had a habit of tearing up documents, scattering pieces in trash bins or on the floor or flushing them down toilets, which sometimes clogged the pipes. And then there's the state investigation in Georgia. He is facing two Justice Department investigations, one specific to the documents, which was a much clearer potential case against him than January 6-related cases. I think that the scale and nature of the investigations that he's facing now are more significant than almost anything else he has faced, especially since he avoided, as best as we can tell, being personally charged by the Manhattan district attorney's office in connection with a case in which his business was charged and his top financial adviser was charged with allegations related to fraud. MAGGIE HABERMAN: I think the answer is undoubtedly yes. I mean, I know you can't predict things, but I wonder, does it feel like he's in greater legal peril now than he has ever been to you? You know, you note that he has managed to escape the consequences for so much of his behavior over the years. You know, you're covering the investigation of documents that he took to Mar-a-Lago now and the litigation that's arisen from that. ![]() Maggie Haberman, welcome back to FRESH AIR. Trump's aides never acted on that suggestion. Since then, Haberman and her Times colleague Michael Schmidt reported that last year, when the National Archives was seeking White House documents stored at Mar-a-Lago, Trump proposed to advisers that they offer the Archives a deal in which he would hand over materials from Mar-a-Lago if the Archives would give him classified documents on the Russia investigation he believes would show it was a hoax. Maggie Haberman's book is "Confidence Man: The Making Of Donald Trump And The Breaking Of America." We recorded our conversation Thursday. She writes that if you want to understand Trump's temperament and conduct, you can learn a lot from his and his father's careers in real estate and their interactions with New York's political bosses. Haberman has known and reported on Trump for decades for the New York Post, the New York Daily News and Politico before the Times. But as Joe Klein wrote in a review in The Times, Haberman's book is more notable for the quality of its observations about Trump's character than its news breaks. He actually instructed an aide to go buy a Superman shirts, Haberman reported, before he was talked out of the idea. When Trump had recovered from his COVID infection, he wanted to be wheeled out of Walter Reed Hospital, then dramatically stand up and unbutton his dress shirt to reveal a Superman logo on his chest. Her book has plenty of new information and detail. She shared a Pulitzer Prize in 2018 for her reporting, along with other reporters at The New York Times and The Washington Post. Haberman has for years been on the most competitive beat in America, covering Donald Trump, and has, in the opinion of many of her colleagues, dominated the field. There have been a lot of books written about Donald Trump, but none have been more anticipated than the one by our guest, Maggie Haberman of The New York Times.
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